Yes — what you’re describing does make sense in the context of everything your body is dealing with right now. And the “sternum caving in” feeling, especially with sharp pain and breath-linked timing, is actually a very important clue rather than something random.
Let me walk through what’s likely happening, because this is one of those situations where several systems are stacking on top of each other.
What’s changed (and why this feels new)
You’ve had:
•Repeated MCAS-triggered neurological suppression
•Loss of postural tone (including trunk + neck)
•Minimal to no recovery time between hits
That combination creates a situation where your rib cage is no longer being actively stabilized.
Normally, the rib cage is held in place by:
•Intercostal muscles
•Diaphragm coordination
•Spinal stabilizers (thoracic extensors)
•Subtle continuous tone (even at rest)
Right now, you’re describing a state where that baseline tone is dropping out.
Why the sternum feels like it’s “caving in”
What you’re describing is very consistent with a few overlapping mechanical issues:
1. Loss of anterior chest wall support
When you sit up without back support, even briefly:
•Your thoracic spine likely falls into flexion (kyphotic collapse)
•Your ribs rotate inward
•The sternum can get pulled posteriorly (inward)
In a typical body, muscles resist this.
In your current state:
That resistance isn’t there → so you feel a sudden inward shift
That can feel exactly like:
> “my chest/sternum just collapsed inward”
2. Breath-linked instability
You said it seems tied to breathing — that’s a key observation.
On inhalation, the rib cage should expand and lift
On exhalation, it recoils inward
But if the stabilizers aren’t coordinating:
•The diaphragm may pull without balanced rib support
•The ribs can move asymmetrically or excessively inward
•The sternum can “drop” suddenly instead of moving smoothly
This creates:
•Sharp, localized sternum pain
•A “caving” or “buckling” sensation
•Pain with even light touch (because joints are irritated)
3. Joint-level irritation (likely costosternal + costochondral)
The areas that are probably getting stressed:
•Sternum–rib joints (costosternal joints)
•Rib cartilage connections (costochondral joints)
With instability + repeated micro-collapse:
These joints can become inflamed and hypersensitive
That explains why:
Your entire rib cage hurts to touch
The sternum is the sharpest point
This is very similar mechanically to costochondritis — but in your case, it’s being driven by instability rather than a simple inflammatory condition.
4. The “transition moment” (this is your highest-risk movement)
You already identified it:
> when you first sit up to drink, without back support
That moment is basically:
•Sudden load on an unstable thoracic structure
•Without muscular bracing
•While breathing is actively shifting pressures
That’s the perfect setup for:
•Rib collapse inward
•Sternum displacement sensation
•Sharp pain spike
Why it’s worse right now (pattern-wise)
This isn’t random progression — it tracks with:
•Cumulative exposures → prolonged hypotonia
•More time semi-reclined → less active rib stabilization
•Frequent positional transitions under weak control
So your system is:
> less supported + more reactive + getting repeated small mechanical insults
About your chair and positioning
You’re thinking in exactly the right direction.
Even if you’re avoiding reinforcing kyphosis, a few things could still contribute:
•Moments of unsupported trunk (even brief)
•Lack of anterior support (something preventing chest collapse forward)
•Head/neck instability → pulling the upper thorax with it
•Micro-sliding or subtle forward drift when tone drops
This is less about “wrong setup” and more about:
> the system needing support that dynamically matches your tone fluctuations
I have no idea how to drink. That's why I have had moments where I can't do it independently. But the reality is that I am in this bedroom alone nearly all the time. I eat most of my meals alone. I take my pills alone. And I need water between every bite of food. I use a bib so I don't have to sit up for every bite of food. But I am incapable of bringing the water to me. My hands can't support any weight like that. And there is no one to help me with every single sit up or bringing the water to me with all my meals. So I don't have back support. But the fact is, these terrible sit-ups from the semi reclined position that feel like an enormous feat, every single time, are part of life and something I must do so many times a day.
Gupta had some ideas, but none sound workable to me. I shall continue the monumental feat of limp sit-ups all day.
Time Fragmentation
(This is an older conversation...now fragrance monopolizes all time and energy.
Why it is so hard to find time in my schedule:
I do not have an hour in my day. Only once every few months do I even find a half hour to manage to see my psychiatrist. Virtually of course. It's hard to explain why this is a fact of my life, but it just is. My bathroom needs taking up a lot of time as well as GI unpredictability and the amount of time that takes up is a large part of it. I don't know when I will be needing my commode, but it will interfere with any appointment/phone call I try to make. Each pee break also seems to take longer and longer, stealing more time. I spend about 5 hours a day dedicated to eating. I cannot talk while I eat. I have specific caregiving/hygiene tasks to get done in each window of my day. I have a dedicated nap time (unless fragrance steals it). Approximately 6:45 to 8:15 p.m. immediately preceded and followed by meals, during which I cannot talk. I do have down time, but it is unpredictable due to my toileting needs mentioned above. And it is much more minimal than one would think for someone with no official responsibilities or commitments. I tried to attend a support group that had various hours available throughout the week. And that did not work out, because it became clear that I never have a reliable hour in a day. So while I agree that I would benefit from therapy, it's not practical. This is also why phone calls are hard to figure out. And this is only on good days. Fragrance assault days are non functional. And often days following them. (I initially wrote this before fragrance took over my life. Will they ever stop?)
Gupta
You are living with extreme “time fragmentation”
Something you explained very clearly is that your life doesn’t have normal blocks of time.
Your day is constantly interrupted by:
•caregiving logistics
•bathroom unpredictability
•medical needs
•fatigue cycles
•environmental triggers like fragrance
You are not failing to communicate with people. Your life structure makes it nearly impossible.
Digestion/Perfusion/Shutdown
Hi there. Can we try to make sense of something? This is an older pattern flaring up again. I wake up. Probably still exposed to fragrance. Still in a prolonged reaction from back to back to back to back fragrance days. We know I'm easily overloaded and collapse in place often. Losing tone.
But I have a food related issue, I think. I eat four meals a day. Meals one and four are the same. They are obviously a staple food since I only tolerate a few. But once my system is flared, I have a reaction to this meal. It is simply oat flour and oat milk and olive oil baked into biscuit type form. I don't tolerate oatmeal. But this form is safe when my system is stable. All ingredients consistent and controlled. Gluten free required. No additives. My safe food. But when in a flare, I suffer for my nutrition. My heart rate accelerates and pounds hard. I get more and more faint. Stupor and limpness and trouble with consciousness. Morning is worst, but meal 4 does the same thing to me. It may not be worse. I just eat meal 4 alone and have someone with me during meal 1. Higher demand. But either way, I guess it seems like I tolerate this food when my mast cells are calmer but not so well when activated. I do better with meals 2 and 3, which are carrot and quinoa puree with broccoli or asparagus. Not really less demanding on digestion. Veggies tend to be challenging for me. I really can't change my diet. I worked very hard to figure out these foods and have done a million failed trials of other foods and other preparations. And I can't cut anything out, of course. I have malnutrition and anemia and vitamin deficiencies, etc. Holding on to any hard earned weight I can. Nothing else has worked. The only other food I can eat is white rice, but I use it only when I have diarrhea, because it stops me up badly.
So honestly, I'm definitely not looking to change my diet. I don't believe I can change the order in which I eat. It's more the mechanism of what is happening that I am interested in I guess. I won't give up my oat biscuits. They are too essential. Helped bring me back from the brink (77 lbs, BMI 13). They replaced a discontinued oat based cold cereal from the store. I replicated that as best as I could but with much more minimal ingredients. Maybe we can figure out why my body struggles so much with this food.
I should add that this is nothing like my other food reactions. I can get terrible itching or hives or bloating or diarrhea or terrible burning or heart pounding for 24 hours with full insomnia. Tons of food reactions. But this is the one that makes me go so faint with near passing out or actual passing out. But again, not when I am in a stable place. They go down very easily when I am a bit more stable. But I am incredibly unstable right now. It seems like everyday is a fragrance day now. Hot and stormy too.
Gupta
What you’re describing actually makes physiological sense—especially given your baseline mast cell instability and the level of cumulative load you’re carrying right now. This doesn’t sound like a “new food intolerance” in the usual sense. It looks much more like a state-dependent reaction—where the same food behaves very differently depending on how activated your system already is.
Let me walk you through what’s most likely happening in your body, in plain terms but without oversimplifying it.
🌡️ 1. You’re eating on top of an already “overfilled bucket”
With repeated fragrance exposures, your mast cells are already firing and releasing mediators (histamine, prostaglandins, etc.). In that state:
Your nervous system is unstable
Your blood vessels are already more dilated than normal
Your brain is already under-perfused (you’re describing stupor/limpness clearly)
So when you eat, you’re not starting from neutral—you’re starting from overloaded.
🍽️ 2. Eating itself is a major physiological stressor (even safe food)
Even a “safe” food triggers:
Blood flow shifting to the gut (postprandial circulation)
Vagus nerve activation
Hormonal and autonomic changes
In most people, this is smooth.
In your case, especially during a flare:
👉 That shift can drop effective blood flow to your brain
This is essentially a form of:
postprandial hypotension (drop in blood pressure after eating)
combined with autonomic dysfunction
Which matches what you describe:
•pounding heart (compensation)
•faintness / near syncope
•loss of tone
•cognitive suppression
🧬 3. Mast cell activation amplifies that drop
When mast cells are activated:
•Blood vessels dilate more than they should
•Capillaries leak fluid (reducing circulating volume)
•Heart rate increases to compensate
So during a flare, eating can trigger a double hit:
1. Normal “blood to gut” shift
2. Mast-cell-driven vasodilation on top of it
➡️ Result: your brain doesn’t get enough perfusion
That’s why this feels so different from your other food reactions.
This is less about “allergy-type symptoms” and more about circulatory instability + neurologic suppression.
🌾 4. Why THIS food, specifically?
This part is subtle, but important.
Your oat biscuit meal might be:
A. Slightly more hemodynamically demanding
Denser / more calorically concentrated
Different digestion timing than purees
Possibly pulls more blood flow into the gut at once
Even if it feels simple, your body may treat it as: 👉 a bigger circulatory shift than the purees
B. Texture + gastric emptying differences
Compared to carrot/quinoa puree:
Biscuits may sit in the stomach longer initially
Then release in a way that causes a stronger autonomic response
C. Carbohydrate profile differences
Oats can:
Trigger insulin response
Cause secondary vascular shifts
In a stable system → fine
In a destabilized system → contributes to the “dip”
⏰ 5. Why morning is worst (and meal 4 also hits)
Morning:
•You’re already volume-depleted (overnight)
•You’re coming off prolonged inflammatory activation
•Cortisol/autonomic fluctuations are unstable
Meal 4:
You’re likely already depleted from the entire day
Cumulative mast cell load is still high
So both times = low reserve states
🧠 6. The key insight
This is the most important takeaway:
👉 Your body is not rejecting the food itself
👉 Your body is failing to maintain circulatory stability while digesting it
That’s a completely different mechanism than classic food reactions.
This is closer to:
•autonomic crash
•perfusion failure
•“brain going offline” from low flow
⚠️ Why it feels so severe
The “limpness / loss of tone / stupor” you describe is very consistent with:
•transient cerebral hypoperfusion
•combined with mast-cell-mediated neurologic suppression
That combination can absolutely be described as:
•pounding heart
•slipping in and out of consciousness
•inability to hold posture
•near-collapse or full collapse
And importantly: 👉 it makes sense that it only happens when you’re already flared
One thing I want to reflect back to you
You figured out something really important:
> The same food behaves differently depending on your mast cell state.
That’s not obvious—and it’s clinically very meaningful.
It tells us your system is operating on a threshold model, not a binary safe/unsafe model.
This definitely fits with my collapse episodes, although it seems that all this strain is creating new patterns to make sense of. Less prolonged fully unconscious time. Not in the mid afternoon like often before. No nap time. Things are shifting.
So something else to note is that if someone talks to me too much or if I engage too much during or after these meal times, even just quiet videos on a phone or just listening to speech, I'm tending toward fainting. My schedule expects me to be able to engage and get some tasks done in this vulnerable time frame. I guess it hasn't been tested enough to see how I do during the day, but I think a bit better. This makes me think beyond hypoperfusion back to my neurological episodes. But I'm not sure how they both fit or if there is an interplay between the circulatory and neurological episodes.
Gupta
What you’re noticing isn’t a separate mystery—it actually fits very tightly with the same mechanism we just outlined. The “talking / listening / cognitive input makes me faint” piece is a really important clue, and it helps connect the circulatory side with the neurological side.
Let me pull the pieces together in a way that matches what your body is doing.
🧠 It’s not just low blood flow—it’s low reserve + demand overload
After you eat (especially in a flare), you’re already in a state of:
•reduced effective brain perfusion
•autonomic instability
•ongoing mast cell mediator effects on the brain
So your brain is operating on very limited reserve.
Now here’s the key shift:
👉 When someone talks to you, or you process speech/video, your brain’s energy demand increases
Even passive listening requires:
•auditory processing
•language decoding
•attention networks
•autonomic engagement
⚡ So you get a “supply vs demand mismatch”
Think of it like this:
Supply (blood flow + oxygen) → already reduced after eating
Demand (brain activity) → increases with interaction
➡️ If demand rises even a little, but supply can’t keep up…
You tip into:
•faintness
•loss of tone
•cognitive shutdown
•near or actual loss of consciousness
🔄 This is where circulatory and neurological pieces merge
You asked whether these are separate or interacting.
They’re interacting.
1. Circulatory side
•Post-meal blood flow shift
•Mast cell–driven vasodilation
•Reduced cerebral perfusion
2. Neurological side
•Brain becomes energy-starved
•Sensory/cognitive input becomes harder to process
•Protective “shutdown” mechanisms kick in
🧠 That “shutdown” feeling you describe
The limpness, stupor, inability to engage—this is very consistent with:
👉 network-level downregulation in the brain due to insufficient perfusion
Not voluntary.
It’s more like:
> the brain reducing activity because it cannot sustain it
📉 Why speech is such a strong trigger
Speech is surprisingly demanding neurologically:
•It’s time-locked (you can’t “pause” incoming speech easily)
•It requires continuous processing
•It pulls in attention + emotional + social networks
So compared to, say, staring quietly at a wall:
👉 speech pushes your brain over the edge faster
That’s why even:
“too much talking”
“quiet videos”
“listening only”
can trigger collapse.
⏰ Why this is worse right after meals
You’ve essentially identified a high-risk window:
> Post-meal + mast cell flare + low baseline reserve
During that window:
Your system is already compensating hard (heart pounding)
There’s very little margin left
So adding anything:
•conversation
•decision-making
•sensory input
can push you into a crash.
🔁 Why your pattern is shifting lately
You said:
•less prolonged unconsciousness
•fewer mid-afternoon crashes
•more immediate post-meal vulnerability
That suggests:
👉 your system may be crashing earlier in the cascade, before it reaches the deeper “full shutdown” phase
In other words:
Before: build → big crash → long unconscious period
Now: earlier threshold crossing, more frequent near-collapses
That often happens when:
•baseline inflammation is higher
•exposures are more continuous (you mentioned constant fragrance days)
Your system doesn’t get enough recovery to build toward one big crash—it just keeps hitting the threshold repeatedly.
🧭 The unifying model
Putting it all together:
You’re dealing with a three-part interaction:
1. Mast cell activation
→ lowers vascular stability + affects brain signaling
2. Postprandial circulatory shift
→ reduces available blood flow to the brain
3. Cognitive/sensory demand
→ increases brain energy needs
➡️ When all three overlap, you get:
•rapid overload
•loss of tone
•near syncope or syncope
⚠️ One important implication (practical, not restrictive)
This isn’t about pushing through.
Because what you’re describing is not:
•fatigue
•deconditioning
•or something you can “train” through
It’s: 👉 a physiological threshold
So expecting yourself to:
•engage
•process conversation
•complete tasks
during that window is essentially asking your brain to operate without enough fuel
🧠 A useful reframe
Instead of:
> “Why can’t I tolerate interaction here?”
A more accurate frame is:
> “This is a low-perfusion, low-reserve window where additional input can tip me into shutdown.”
If you want to go one step further
We can map out:
•how to identify the earliest warning signs before the drop
•how to define a protected window after meals
•or ways to reduce just enough demand without changing your life structure too drastically
We can do that very carefully so it respects your reality and constraints.
What you’ve described is actually very coherent physiologically—it’s just happening at a very extreme sensitivity level because your system is already so burdened.
I need to figure out how to reduce demand a little. There is a practical side and an emotional side here. This is my time with my mom. I refuse to make it silent time and not attempt communication, even though my body is failing me.
Also, I am struggling severely with tasks I normally get done with my mom or in the window between breakfast and lunch. (They are pretty close together...not ideal but reality. I finish breakfast around 1 and eat lunch by 2:20-ish. It used to be 2:00, but it wasn't enough time. I think I eat slower now.
Gupta
What you’re trying to protect here makes complete sense. This isn’t just a “symptom management window”—it’s your time with your mom. So the goal isn’t silence or withdrawal. It’s keeping connection while lowering the specific types of demand that are tipping your system over.
Right now, your body isn’t rejecting interaction. It’s rejecting continuous, high-load processing during a low-perfusion window.
So we don’t remove connection—we reshape how it happens.
🧠 The key shift: “connection without continuous processing”
The biggest trigger in what you described is:
•continuous speech
•sustained attention
•back-and-forth dialogue
That’s very different from:
•intermittent interaction
•predictable pacing
•low-language communication
So the goal becomes:
> Keep emotional presence, reduce cognitive load
❤️ What connection can look like (without going silent)
These are not “less meaningful”—they’re just lower demand neurologically:
1. Short-burst talking instead of continuous conversation
Instead of ongoing dialogue:
You speak → pause
She speaks → pause
Even small pauses (5–15 seconds) give your brain time to recover perfusion.
2. Anchor the interaction in something shared but low-processing
Examples:
•Sitting together while she reads something aloud slowly with pauses
•Watching something very calm and brief (low stimulation)
•Looking at photos together
•Even just commenting occasionally instead of continuous conversation
👉 The connection is still there, but the processing demand is broken up
3. Let her carry more of the verbal load—but at a slower rhythm
This is subtle but powerful:
•One voice is easier than switching back and forth
•Slower pacing reduces demand
You’re still engaged—you’re just not doing equal-output conversation in that window.
4. Use touch or presence as part of the “conversation”
•hand holding
•her sitting near you
•grounding physical presence
This gives your nervous system connection without requiring processing
⚙️ Practical: protecting the “post-breakfast window”
You’ve identified a very tight window:
Finish breakfast ~1:00
Lunch ~2:20
That’s only ~80 minutes—and right now it’s a physiologically unstable window
So instead of expecting that whole window to function the same, try dividing it:
🟡 Phase 1 (0–30 min after eating) → ultra low demand
This is your highest-risk period.
•minimal talking
•very slow pacing
•no tasks
connection = presence, short phrases
🟢 Phase 2 (30–70 min) → gentle engagement
•slightly more conversation
•very light tasks only
•still paced, with breaks
🔴 Tasks that likely don’t fit here (right now)
Not forever—just in this current flare state:
•anything requiring sustained attention
•decision-making
•multitasking
•time pressure
•pjysical exertion
Those are exactly what your system is rejecting.
⚖️ Emotional reality (this part matters just as much)
You said:
> “I refuse to make it silent time”
That’s not resistance—that’s clarity about what matters.
But there’s a middle ground between:
full conversation and silence
Right now your body is forcing a choice, but we can expand the options in between.
🧠 Reframe (gentle, not dismissive)
This isn’t:
> “I can’t show up for my mom”
It’s:
> “I need a different format of showing up during this window”
And importantly:
👉 If you push into full-demand interaction and crash, you lose more time and connection afterward.
So this isn’t reducing connection—it’s protecting continuity of it.
🧩 One small but meaningful adjustment
If you only change one thing, I’d suggest this:
> Intentionally slow the pace of conversation right after meals
Not less love. Not less presence.
Just:
fewer words at a time
more space between them
That alone may reduce how often you tip into that edge.
🧭 About your shrinking functional window
The fact that:
•breakfast and lunch are close
•eating is slower
•recovery is incomplete
means your system is spending most of the day in overlapping demand cycles
That’s why tasks are falling apart in that window.
Not because you’ve lost ability—but because: 👉 the timing pressure + physiological load is stacking too tightly
We can look at that next, if you want—without changing your food itself.
You’re not wrong to hold onto that time. We just need to make it survivable for your body.
So, I don't know how to adapt to this really. This is the time my mom designates for me. It's protected time. But it's true that I haven't been able to share my emotional reality or hear nearly as much of hers. But there isn't another time for that.
This is also when we try to shampoo...which is back to not happening, which is so gross right now, but I can't leave the bedroom, much less tolerate the physical exertion. She does my hair and face and deodorant. Rob washes my feet and changes my underwear. ALL in that window. I don't know how I ever did it. Or how I'll get back to it. I feel the need to restructure the day in addition to the new approach to "connecting." 😥
Gupta
Yeah… this isn’t just a “tweak the conversation style” problem.
This is a whole system collision:
•your most fragile physiological window
•your only protected emotional connection time
•and your highest physical care demands
All stacked into the same 60–80 minutes.
No nervous system—especially not one dealing with mast cell activation and autonomic instability—can carry all three at once. What you’re running into isn’t failure. It’s load stacking beyond capacity.
🧠 The honest core problem
Right now that window is trying to be:
1. 💛 Emotional connection time
2. 🧼 Hygiene / physical care time
3. 🧠 Cognitive/communication time
But your body, in this state, can realistically handle maybe one of those at a time.
So the question isn’t:
> “How do I push through and do all of this?”
It becomes:
> “How do I separate these roles just enough to make them survivable?”
⚖️ A critical reframe (not giving anything up)
You’re not choosing between:
connection or care
You’re choosing to stop forcing them to happen simultaneously in your worst physiological state
Because right now, combining them is what’s breaking both.
🔧 Step 1: Split the type of connection (not remove it)
Right now you’re expecting that window to hold:
•deep emotional sharing
•listening
•presence
But your brain, in that state, can’t reliably support language-heavy emotional processing
So we divide connection into two types:
🟡 Type A: “Low-load connection” (keep this in your current window)
•presence
•short phrases
•reassurance
•light check-ins
•physical closeness
This preserves:
> “We are together”
🟢 Type B: “Emotional processing connection” (move elsewhere—even briefly)
This is the:
•deeper sharing
•listening to her emotional reality
•expressing yours
Right now, trying to do this post-meal is what’s collapsing you.
Even 10–15 minutes at a different time of day (when slightly more stable) could carry more emotional depth than 60 minutes in a crashing state.
🚿 Step 2: Hygiene is being forced into the wrong window
This part is really important:
Shampoo + hygiene is:
•physically demanding
•sensory triggering
•autonomically destabilizing
👉 It directly competes with digestion and perfusion.
So what you’re experiencing (not tolerating it anymore) is actually expected.
💡 Gentle restructuring idea (not all-or-nothing)
Instead of:
> “All hygiene happens in this one window”
Try:
> distributing micro-care across the day
Examples:
Hair care separate from meals entirely
Face + deodorant at a different, calmer time
Feet/underwear already split to Rob...should be moved out of this time frame
⏳ Step 3: Accept that your capacity has shifted (temporarily, not permanently)
You said:
> “I don’t know how I ever did it”
That’s actually a really important observation.
What likely changed:
•more continuous fragrance exposure
•less recovery between hits
•higher baseline inflammation
So your starting point each day is lower
Which means: 👉 the same routine now exceeds capacity
This isn’t loss of ability—it’s loss of buffer
❤️ The emotional reality (this part matters most)
You’re grieving multiple things at once:
•not being able to fully connect with your mom in the way you want
•needing help with very intimate care, but unable in its current form
•losing routines that made you feel human and clean
•your world shrinking further
And underneath all of that is:
> “There isn’t another time”
That’s the part we have to gently challenge—not by dismissing it, but by finding even a small crack in it
Because right now, keeping everything in that one window is what’s making it all collapse.
🧭 A minimal viable restructuring (starting point)
Not a full overhaul—just enough to relieve pressure:
Keep:
💛 your mom’s presence in that window
light connection
essential care only
Modify:
🧠 no heavy emotional conversations there
🗣️ slow, spaced communication
Move (even partially):
🧼 most hygiene tasks to a different time
💬 emotional sharing to even a short separate window later in the day
🧩 One very small, concrete place to start
If nothing else changes yet:
> Choose ONE thing to remove from that window
That alone may reduce enough load to keep you more conscious and present.
You’re not failing at managing this.
Your system is telling you, very clearly:
> “This is too much at once.”
And you’re listening closely enough to hear it—that’s actually the starting point for getting even a little stability back.
Not sure how to proceed. Some cooler days will help temporarily. I don't know how to restructure relationships and routines that I rely on right now. But my body and brain are undeniably failing at the current arrangement. I need the attacks to stop. Is she going for some kind of record for smelliest ****?)
